BloodMoon in Top 5 - cheaters too??!!!

Hi again. 
The Bloodmoons on 2nd Place are never so strong as the Raiderz!!
This Gild with the leader „Loksel“ was already banned in Season 4. 
they have approximate Level 20 Players, raiderz have 21. 
The creatures are Level 6 with one or two Upgrades, the raiderz have Level 7 Fighters with Full Upgrades. 

Please Check and Remove. 

Its no fun for honest Players. :((((

Comments

  • edited January 21

    Hi Seashepherd!

    BLOODMOON is a Top 5 guild and no we are NOT cheaters.

    Also, before I get into a long winded explanation regarding how exactly we are a top 5 guild; I want to make it clear that I was never banned and I have no idea how that rumor started circulating.

    Here is what you need to understand about BM. We are incredibly ORGANIZED and PASSIONATE:

    1. We utilize our Discord server as our primary form of communication. 

    2. We activate boosters everyday. Literally, everyday at reset. 15+ of our members attack during that 3 hour window. (Makes a huge difference!)

    3. We spend countless hours discussing the best strategies for each boss. Current season as well as a season ahead based on our ability to judge progression of our member base. Strategies are recorded and followed almost perfectly.

    4. Myself and several others also manage and coordinate all attacks. This ensures that we never waste attacks by overlapping and it also allows for optimization of our potential damage.

    5. In regards to member level. There is a huge difference between for example  level 5-6 creatures compared to level 6-7. At level 6 you gain access to level 10 abilities. All 20 of our members have atleast a couple if not an entire squad of level 6 - level  10 ability creatures. Plus our whole guild is level 20+ with the exception of two level 19’s who are very close. 

    I could keep keep going on but last thing I will say is this. We are a group of extremely dedicated and competitive players that help each other out and work as a cohesive unit. 

    All these things together is what makes us the fastest growing guild in the game. Thank you for expressing your concern and being on the lookout for those who are cheating their way to the top. That is not us though. Best of luck to you and your guild this season!

    Past season placement:

    SEASON 4: 203
    SEASON 5: 20
    SEASON 6: 18
    SEASON 7: 6
    SEASON 8: 4 (currently)
  • Hello Loksel.

    Most of what you said may be true. I have no doubt your guild is highly organized, passionate, competetive, and skilled. However, You and some of your guild have not been playing fairly and you've abused the system to gain an unfair advantage over other guilds which have been playing fairly. You know this. Your officers know this, and if your other guild members know it maybe they ignore it.

    For weeks perhaps even more than a month, you've been rotating members in and out of your guild daily. You've benefited from addtional donations, likely additional bombs, likely additional attempts on the Bosses or Crystals, and likely perhaps even Additional Booster Buffs.

    How do I know this? Because I've watched for weeks your rotating carousel of Guild Members. How can I prove it? I've amassed a trove of screenshots watching your guild's behavior for weeks.

    - You drop your guild's minimum level from 20 down to 1 or some other low number such as 6 or 7, maybe even 17.
    - You rotate an Officer out of your guild (Perhaps several different Officers over time). I'm sure they're all in on your plan. 
    - You rotate in other Players as quickly as possible. Have them Donate, presumably bomb the boss, even attack the boss and then they leave the guild again. 
    - When your additional players are finished rotating out and contributing via Donations, Bombs, Attacks on the boss, what have you, your Officer Rejoins the guild. 
    - You then re-raise your guild minimum level back to 20. You as the guild leader are the ONLY person who can change this setting. 

    Why would a guild who's level 20+ on Member Levels need to drop their minimum guild level down to 1 or some lower level such as 6 or 7? You can't say you're honeslty trying to recruit members that are that level... C'mon you're not fooling anyone. And it's clearly not to communicate, because like you said, You use Discord.

    Oh, but 1 or two accounts that's gotta be a coincidence? Nope, not buying it either. Especially because those same low level accounts rejoin day after day. I've watched and have screenshots of these same low level accounts returning to your guild several days straight. It's no coincidence it happens around the same time too.


    This is just a small example from 2 Days worth of player rotations. You've been doing this for weeks or longer.

    I'm well aware you have another feeder guild. Sure, You "could" just be auditioning players to see how strong they are? But... Why wouldn't you just have them post screenshots to you from your other guild to see how much damage they did? No, instead you bring them into your main guild, and have them contribute extra boss attempts and bombs damage contributing to your main guild further increasing your guild's damage numbers far over what a guild of 20 members can achieve. 

    Over a 4-days span Your guild "AVERAGED" 24 members worth of donations. That's an Average... You could have easily had possibly 8 members rotating in and out of your guild in a day. If you've done this for WEEKS, you've clearly been generating more gold, damage, and other things that are unattainable from a guild that plays with 20 players legitmately. A 4-Day only period you may say, that's nothing...


    Of course you know, you could average almost 23 members donating per day for 16 days ... Ya know, over two weeks. It clearly demonstrates that you've been up to this behavior for an extended period of time.

    I have no beef with competetive play, I have no gripe with striving for success, but I do have an issue with those using unfair tactics that abuse the system in a way that's not fair to players who do compete fairly. This isn't about how your guild is better than mine... It's about fair play.
  • edited January 22

    Hi Loksel

    I just want to inform you that contrary to your beautifully written and empassioned objections we are completely aware of your cheating. As Denzik has stated, we have plenty of evidence to support this claim. You are no longer just dealing with speculations. 

    I have been in two top ranking Guilds and have been in your cohort on the leaderboard since as far back as season four. So I am more than familiar with your guild and its travels over time.  My skills have been watching other teams and the leaderboard to help formulate strategies and provide data. I enjoy finding patterns and I am an avid recorder of data and information gathering for this competition. Knowing this about me Denzik who is an officer in my current guild approached me to see if I had noticed anything or recorded any information that might support his hunches, as he had observed some strange activity. 

    As it turns out I was at the same level of suspicion myself and so we compared notes and were able to put together a fairly good picture of what was going on. We began a coordinated process of collecting evidence. We are not the type to go pointing fingers or making public accusations without being completely certain of what we are doing. See, we operate on a level of absolute fairness. 

    So basically from that point we began closely monitoring your guild. We have each collected separate evidence and I also dig up information from your past communications and recruitment posts. It’s amazing what you can find with a little bit of number work and patience for details. I can now say with absolute certainty and based on the evidence that Denzik has outlined that we have unearthed many of your tactics for gaining your higher position on the leaderboard. These are not tactics that should be used in this game and can not have appeared to be acceptable in anyway. In other words acted out in full awareness that it was not above board. 

    Denzik in his thoroughness has supplied us with a definition of cheating which is as follows:

    Cheat: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

    This you have achieved Loksel and there is no denying it. We did not set out to publicly proclaim your cheating we have made many attempts since last season to firstly  verify our facts - including when one of your rotating officers contacted us out of the blue on some issue we decided to let him know that we had seen his movements in an out of the guild and wanted to know what was the purpose of this. His reply was quite frankly a lot of shit that could easily be verified if tracked by the developers should they eventually investigate the matter. I am surprised that this did not set off alarm bells for any of you and cause you to reign in your deceit. You must really think that no one would've ever noticed. I have to say I don’t think you put much effort into covering your tracks. 

    So further to this we followed the correct procedure and reported our findings to the proper channels - this meaning support and also reps on various forums etc -requesting you be investigated and removed from the competition. This happened well before last season was over and it is with regret that apart from one single rep replying with a general I will pass this on statement, that we received no action and not even acknowledgement of receipt, despite repeated submissions. 

    We just decided days ago to set a specific amount of time since our last attempt before we would go public on forums with our findings. Strangely enough it was at this exact moment we had chosen that someone else came forward to raise the issue and pave the way for us to do so.

    So in response to your statements .... yes you are incredibly organized.... at cheating. You may do countless hours on strategies and run your team tightly and everything else you have outlined and claim that this is what alters your performance but we know for a fact that your best strategy is to have a seriously greater amount of players in your team on a daily basis. We have seen 5 or more players rotate in and out on a daily basis and not all of them do donations. So our figures on your excess donations for number of players isn’t even as high as the actual number of players above 20 per day. Nothing beats that strategy to give you the edge over the rest of us. This includes some of the top three teams Who have previously been untouchable. 

    The only thing we don’t know is how long you have actually been doing this for. I suspect it’s far longer then we have recorded because as I said I have watched your progress for many seasons which has been up-and-down for sure but never so completely different than the rest of us in our cohort like the way it is now. I also note a comment from you discussing cheating guilds some time back where a guild leader outlined the possibility of these tactics being used by teams. You’re reply said this is just not right but your brain said this is gold. I am thinking that the date of that comment is a good bet for a possible starting time for your current state of play. 

    You are extremely competitive as you said, however you don’t play fair in your competitiveness. And even the actions that you take which are not technically cheating, such as the way you have upgraded your team power, is still quite questionable in terms of Fair Play even to your own players. I happen to know and have evidence of this ruthlessness that you have shown to loyal members who helped take your guild to the top only to shed them aside for more powerful players. If we all did this kind of behaviour within our guild what would be the point of any of us fighting to get to the top just for other people to step in and get what we have worked for. 

    And yes Loksel, I have seen communications directly from you that clearly state this is what you have done. Personally that offends me the greatest of all the things that you have done with your guild. 


    So I am glad that you are thanking people for expressing concerns and being on the lookout for cheats because I absolutely have been on the lookout and monitoring almost your every move for some time. I also have a stack of evidence to add to Denzik’s much of it we took on split shifts of our “lookout” and I can happily make that available to you  if necessary at any stage. 


    Wishing other guilds luck is a bit rich given that it would take more than luck to compete with your team. 

    Cheers

    elissabella - Genesiscorp


    Formerly Reddragons... just so you know that I really have been by your side for many seasons!

  • That strategy kinda seems like spinning your wheels, for twice the work.  But that doesn't mean using the game like that is necessarily cheating,  King/ who ever will have to decide based on their policies, which seem to allow it, imo.  
  • SirOdin said:
    That strategy kinda seems like spinning your wheels, for twice the work.  But that doesn't mean using the game like that is necessarily cheating,  King/ who ever will have to decide based on their policies, which seem to allow it, imo.  
    I disagree. That is clearly cheating. It may be a lot of work but that doesn't change anything. There's a limit in donations and in attacks and bombs and they are going around that. Sure, they didn't use any hacks nor they are abusing any bugs but it's not something that is intended. If this was a 1 player game, that would be fine. When there's competition, it is not.
  • edited January 22
    @SirOdin
    It is clear in the T&Cs from King that this constitutes abuse 
  • The lack of response from anyone in bloodmoon speak louder than anything else.
  • Let me say that I am not and never been a BloodMoon member. I do not understand why anyone would go to such lengths to cheat like BloodMoon guild. I do know that when top guild boss from a run was rewarding a lot of gold, cheaters would join a guild  near end of guild boss death. Reap the rewards from a guild then leave.  Devs answer to this cheating was to punish us all and no longer reward a lot of gold for defeating top guild boss out of a run.

    The extreme cheating problem (BloodMoon) has now been identified.  So now players need to submit solutions to prevent this type of extreme cheating since Devs are just twenty year olds (speculating) lol and unable to provide solutions. They are just mindless programmers and not management or CEOs or Vice CEOs or the like. 
  • Bedazzle said:
    So now players need to submit solutions to prevent this type of extreme cheating since Devs are just twenty year olds (speculating) lol and unable to provide solutions. They are just mindless programmers and not management or CEOs or Vice CEOs or the like. 
    Developers are exceptionally smart, savvy and it takes incredible mental effort to do what they've done in this game, and in their careers. Solving Problems like this are not easy, and it does take time.

    That said, it doesn't fall only onto the shoulders of the developers for the decisions which are made. In fact a lot of the time it is other people who have the say which dictate what gets programmed into the game and applications. These guys work hard on the game, and if you've never been involved in software development it generally comes with some very long nights and hours. These guys deserve some credit for what they've done, but it takes time to implement changes the proper way to be both "Fair" and "Enjoyable". 
  • Solutions Denzik.  I used to play a PVP game where there was a 24 hour cool down before player could join another guild. I never understood why but now I know. 
  • Actually it was a three day cool down before you could rejoin a new guild. Have not played PVP for awhile now due to takes a lot of prescheduled time. 
  • Another possible solution is to limit the number of attacks from the Guild to 40 (+20 bombs) in a game day.

    that way genuine new players that join aren’t disadvantaged by having to wait 3 days. The guild can benefit from their arrival straight away (subject to having attacks available). But the guild can’t take advantage and gain more attacks than they are entitled to in the way that has been described here.

    fwiw has anyone noticed that no-one has gone on vacation from bloodmoon this week...jordhino hasn’t had to leave the guild for the last 5 days...he is on 750 donations. A rare occurrence...
  • MadScientist. Had to think through your suggestion but you are correct that both solutions would need to be implemented.  So BloodMoon is ruining the game for us all resulting in guild donations having to be 500,000 before getting next buff when guild only has max of 20 members with max 150 gold contribution per day per member.  (Being into conspiracy theories IS BLOODMOON guilds plant by developer!?!?)
  • @mad scientist
    We have noted this and have not seen anything to record over at Bloodmoon since posting our replies to Loksel. IKR?!

    i think that the solution you have outlined makes perfect sense and is simple to implement. It also does not further impact guilds who genuinely have to replace members and are already at a loss.

    As for the ones who have already done the damage Bloodmoon I would be really disappointed if they did not have to face any action against them (meaning the leader and members + nonmembers who have been clearly seen participating). It’s been very disheartening to see them place and gain prizes with this behaviour last season and even more so to see them continue to disrupt fair play and progress for other guilds.

    It’s even affected our guild to have had to be so busy trying to get this issue to attention and have it actioned. It should have been flagged as important by the developers/support and taken up immediately. That is what was promised on the old version of this forum actually in guild discussion -when they asked for people to go through proper chanels to report hacking and cheating. We did do that and did not get the fast action promised for doing so, we got almost no action. That is why we have had to take this kind of action.

    I really would have preferred to have the appropriate chanels dealing with it and have our time, energy and attention dedicated to progressing/managing our own guild. However it is of the highest importance to us to preserve the fairness and playability of the game for all of the guilds as well as for our own. What they are doing if allowed to go unchecked can essentially ruin gameplay for guilds who don’t take up said strategies when others do. And they will ... two have already been flagged in top 10 so far this season. 
  • I opened a ticket on the in-game support regarding this issue and think you all should do the same. They have gotten much better at responding quickly to those tickets, and the more they hear from us about these cheaters the more likely they will take care of it sooner than later.
  • Only 24 members? You all are thinking way too small. I propose we all form a "guild" of 7400 (the number of members in the Facebook group) and see how fast we can take down all the bosses!
  • @boatface if you can’t beat them go harder at it? I will certainly consider that a viable plan if you are happy to coordinate the 7000+ rotations in and out of the guild per day ha ha 
  • I opened a ticket on the in-game support regarding this issue and think you all should do the same. They have gotten much better at responding quickly to those tickets, and the more they hear from us about these cheaters the more likely they will take care of it sooner than later.

  • Did you ever get a response to your support ticket on this issue?
  • It is with great pride that I can say our Crew has never exceeded the 20 player limit, even though we have discussed the strategies and possibilities.  Thank goodness I found this post because it seemed like such a gray area. After reading all of your comments, I am now in  total agreement that exceeding the 40 battles and 20 bombs per reset period should be defined as cheating.  If you ever watch my movement, you will see me going in and out, but it is for recruiting purposes when we have an inactive player.  I believe the only way to keep teams from having extra players is to limit the total number of team battles and bombs per reset period.   Even if you changed the number of days before rejoining, if you had a long enough list of players, you could still exceed the team battle/bomb total.
  • Blakcat said:
    Did you ever get a response to your support ticket on this issue?

    I got a pretty generic message: We do our best to prevent cheaters and will look into it, type of thing. I find it interesting that ever since they got called out, suddenly they stopped rotating players in and out. If you look at their roster, there are quite a umber of players toward the bottom of the list that are around $4000-$5000 in donations. That relates to about 1 month ago. It seems they have stopped doing this tactic, but the damage may have already been done as they have gained a lot of loot through their cheating and may be able to maintain their spot at the top as result.
  • Sounds like a trip to the Help, Contact Us for me to put in my two cents.  We can view the Top 20 teams, but we are unable to tell if teams below the Top 20 are using this tactic.  In fairness to all, team limits of 40 battles and 20 bombs needs to be implemented... the sooner, the better.  
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